Pedagogies of Resistance w/Danna Aduna
Show notes
In this episode, Danna Aduna, assistant professor of philosophy at the University of the Philippines: Baguio, tells Élaina why she no longer wants to teach male philosophers and how she gets creative with assigned syllabi by experimenting with different ways of running her classrooms.
Content note: This episode contains non-graphic discussions of sexual harassment, sexual violence, and misogyny.
You can follow Danna’s activism on https://timesupateneo.org/ and on Twitter @TimesUpAteneo and @WomenDoingPhilo.
Books mentioned in this episode:
Living The Feminist Life, by Sara Ahmed
Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
Experience, Identity & Epistemic Injustice within Ireland's Magdalene Laundries, by Chloe K. Gott
Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, by Kate Manne
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Find the transcripts at https://www.elainagauthiermamaril.com/philosophy-casting-call-podcast
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Transcript
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 0:04
This is Philosophy Casting Call.
Hello and welcome everyone to Philosophy Casting Cal,l a podcast that features underrepresented philosophical talent. My name is Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril and I'm your host and the resident casting director. Today, take a trip with me to Manila, Philippines as I interviewed Danna Aduna. Danna has an interesting story and I wanted to speak with her because I discovered her activism on Twitter. We will be discussing some sensitive topics, including sexual harassment and sexual assault in academia. We do not go into any graphic details, but this is just a heads up that we will be focusing on those topics and how they intersect with her scholarship. So without further ado, please welcome Donna Aduna.
Hi, Danna, welcome to Philosophy Cast Call! Would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners?
Danna Aduna 1:37
Sure. My name is Danna Aduna and I'm from the Philippines. I'm a Master of Arts degree holder in philosophy. I have been teaching philosophy to undergraduate students since 2016, I was with at the Ateneo de Manila University. Now I'm currently looking into my other options. And I'm also applying to PhD.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 1:59
Could you tell me how you got into philosophy? Because when we were speaking last week, you were saying you kind of... what do you want to do in the future is different from what you've done in the past. So maybe walk us through that journey?
Danna Aduna 2:16
Sure. It's kind of an indirect route to philosophy: my undergraduate degree was in computer science. I was working in the IT industry as a programmer for four years until I left for research assistant position three years into my corporate stint, I was unhappy and looking at ways to survive and keep myself engaged in some things. And so I was entertaining the idea of further studies, but I couldn't see myself doing it in computer science. And then I remembered my philosophy classes. So in Ateneo de Manila, where I did my both my undergraduate and graduate degree, we take 12 units of philosophy in the undergraduate level. And I remember enjoying my philosophy classes a lot and appreciating the things that it helped me think about, and additionally, so on a whim, I decided to apply for an MA philosophy programme. And to my surprise, I stayed, and later on wanted to pursue a career in academics.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 3:25
So it's interesting that you've come from computer science into philosophy, because those are both traditionally male dominated fields. And do you feel a difference in the culture between departments between subjects?
Danna Aduna 3:44
That's a good question. I'm not sure I've necessarily compare them. I remember not realising that they were male dominated maybe until I was a little too far into my studies. I remember, I was an MA student already in philosophy and they realised while watching the undergraduate get their diplomas and graduation, that these were all men or mostly men. And then that's when it bothered me. I guess that was kind of naive of me. I guess. It also depends on the people you're surrounded with or the kind of features you have in my computer science programme. Some of the most beloved teachers were women. Some of her first teachers, throughout their studies were women. Whereas when I was doing my MA studies, I had to kind of make a deliberate choice to always choose a woman professor each time so it wasn't something that they really thought about. I guess the gender aspect of it wasn't really something I thought about when I was doing computer science, but when I was in philosophy, and then realised that I'm in another male dominated discipline! That's when I thought back to Computer Science a bit more, and realise how it bleeds into my interactions with my peers maybe. And definitely in philosophy, it was more of a salient experience than it was in computer science. It could have been my level of awareness or maybe it was just worse.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 5:21
What did you work on in your masters compared to what you want to work on now in the future?
Danna Aduna 5:28
My graduate degree or graduate programme in Ateneo de Manila is very much along the continental philosophy tradition, actually, particularly existential phenomenology. So my MA thesis was on Heidegger and Levinas and their notions of finitude, basically how Levinas critiques Heidegger's account of death as a self enclosing account. And, in a nutshell, his critique is that death does not close us in to our solitude, but it actually breaks that solitude open. It's kind of the core of the critique and my own, my own analysis of it. I also bring in some of Derrida's reading of Heidegger and loneliness. Reading Heidegger, my take on it is that Derrida reads Heidegger's work to bring out the otherness of death in Being and Time. And so his reading of Heidegger is more compatible to Levinas as more reconcilable to Lebanon than maybe the the more traditional reading or maybe the right reading of, of Heidegger. So I guess when I chose my MA thesis, I chose a topic that was an organic accumulation of or summation of what I did in my studies. I didn't really veer too far away from the tradition of my department. I think under a different set of circumstances, I might have studied finitude, but in a very different way. When I started applying for PhD programmes, I knew that I wasn't necessarily going to continue the research that I did, or started in my MA study. So I've been applying with research proposals on epistemic injustice. And so I am looking to transition from existential phenomenology to feminist philosophy and political philosophy. I did do some work on political philosophy at the start of my MA studies again, since I was doing it on a whim, I didn't really have like a clear view of what Iwanted to do. So I kind of went class by class, paper by paper, and now I'm really trying to find my way and tried to be more intentional about the things I spend my time on.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 7:56
And just to make it clear to people who might not know about this, how do you define epistemic injustice?
Danna Aduna 8:03
So epistemic injustice was coined by Miranda Fricker. It is injustice done to someone as a knower, usually owing to identity-based prejudices. So Fricker defines two standard forms of epistemic injustice versus testimonial injustice, which is according someone and their testimony less credibility than the should be accorded. And then hermeneutical injustice is pertaining to the conditions under which it is difficult to even voice or make sense of one's experience because the hermeneutical resources might not be available. So a classic example that Fricker makes is the time when the term "sexual harassment" was set to be giving women and survivors of sexual harassment wouldn't necessarily have that resource of what sexual harassment is to explain the kind of violation that they experience.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 9:09
It kind of blurs the boundaries between the acquisition of knowledge and what kind of tools we can use for political advocacy, or for legal demands or rights and how we shape our spaces. So like with the example of coining the term sexual harassment, then, you know, we can put it in laws or we can advocate for changes because we have a term that kind of crystallises a lived experience of people that had been overlooked or not believed for a long time.
Danna Aduna 9:46
It definitely situates knowledge or knowledges and the practices connected to giving voice to that knowledge and making use of that knowledge within a political sphere. Or at least that gives awareness through that political nature of that exercise and Fricker begins her work actually, with an analysis of or an exposition of power.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 10:10
You've mentioned that you're department is more kind of traditionally, what we call Continental, kind of late 20th century French-German philosophy. Was there a moment where you were introduced to feminist philosophy that that come through lived experience or activism? Or was it within the philosophy department?
Danna Aduna 10:33
I remember asking for feminist philosophy courses during my ma studies with unfortunately, for reasons I no longer number A was never able to take feminist philosophy formally, although I sat in some classes when I was already doing my MA thesis. So I think that was my first exposure to feminist philosophy apart from reading, like the few texts in contemporary philosophy, which sometimes includes feminist texts, and it didn't really consider myself a feminist or wanting to become a feminist philosopher.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 11:08
Why didn't you identify with that?
Danna Aduna 11:10
I just thought you need to have a certain amount of experience and participation involvement in the feminist struggle to call yourself a feminist, and I didn't feel like a wasn't liable to that label, necessarily, the feminist philosopher. So that's with regard to see myself as a feminist in terms of wanting to do feminist philosophy, I think it's kind of a kind of resistance to that expectation people have that when you're a vocal woman, or when you when you have a lot of these feminist critiques, then you necessarily go to feminist philosophy. But a lot of a lot of strong feminist women in philosophy are doing all these different things. And I think it does a disservice to the women in philosophy if we just expect them to do feminist philosophy. So it gets to serve, you're not really I guess it was a weird unexamined resistance to that.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 12:18
You also work on activism against sexual harassment on campuses as well, would you like to speak more about that?
Danna Aduna 12:27
So in October 2019, protests erupted in my university against sexual harassment and impunity. And one of the departments that were embroiled in that issue and those protests was our department. So I did begin the protests, and was one of the people who were organising it, and was also one of the people who engaged the administration in the aftermath of the protests. The night after the protests, the graduate students of our department and junior faculty of our department released a statement talking about the situation in the department at Ateneo University, which is basically that sexual harassment as an issue is inadequately acknowledged and addressed and we talked about the culture of misogyny, and enabling sexual harassment in our department. So it's kind of how I got involved in it.
And as we were talking about, you know, what got you into feminist philosophy or, and stuff like that. It actually after the protests I realised, you know, I, I can't really dwell on this question whether I had the right to call myself a feminist or not. I suddenly had more, you know, bigger problems to kind of grapple with and confront. So that question kind of went out the window after the protests. So yeah, since then we've formed a collective it's called Times Up Ateneo. It's formed by survivors and advocates against sexual violence in the university. We've had the opportunity to connect with the other groups and other schools and universities who are fighting the same cause. And since being in this activist work, I've started doing philosophy that's closer to this.
So we first formed Times Up Ateneo as a coalition, which to me is like a very impersonal, I don't really know what the coalition means, right? But then, in March, after, after Women's Day, we had the solidarity picket, because there was a, an article in the student newspaper in Ateneo about sexual harassment done by this particular professor and two alumnae talked about their experience so we did a solidarity picket with them. And then we realised in the conversation in that picket that we needed to form a community where we need each other. And we're not just names of organisations who would co-sign statements, pressure admin: we needed a community of people. And so by that time, around March 2020, that was also the start of the lockdown because of the pandemic. And so all these community building activities we did online, and our first activity was a reading group of Kate Manne's Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny and it was just the best experience, it was the way we recruited most of our members who are still active in Timees Up Ateneo and it was just a great, great time to kind of find the words to express what we've long experienced and long been trying to speak about. I think it really gave us that supportive space if we didn't have that affirming space if we didn't have because when we spoke up about the culture of misogyny. People were like "What misogyny? There's the misogyny, there's misogyny in philosophy in the abstract, but it can't be actual concrete, misogynist, like speech and misogynistic people." Right. So. So it was just great. I think it was a great anti gaslighting effort to just have that reading group. It was fun. Yeah.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 16:30
Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. I think reading groups can be very powerful that way. And I'm curious, because obviously, okay, maybe not, obviously, but activism often brings together people from different backgrounds, and in a university setting, it becomes very interdisciplinary. So my question to you is, how do you see the role of feminist philosophy within this ongoing academic discourse, but also grassroots based activism alongside other kinds of discourses?
Danna Aduna 17:05
When I was mentioning earlier that you know, it, kind of affirm our experiences, ideally, it's not philosophy, or this feminist philosopher right thing from confidence away, who's affirming your experiences and your criticisms and your, your pain, your anger, ideally it's your community that does that for you. But when, when you are in that position, where you're talking about things that are highly contested, for example, misogyny, whether there is misogyny or not, women and other minoritized genders know that there is but when you have a text, it's not necessarily like that it gives you the citations, you need to prove a point, but I think the engagement of the text itself creates the space where we can talk about your experiences where you find yourself resonating with someone articulating something that you've long wanted to, to bring up and have been trying to bring up tracing the engagement of texts is a great experience in building community and fostering connections. Feminist philosophy texts can do that, but other other texts might also do that as well. So we've since had reading groups on fiction had movie nights, but I think feminist philosophy really helps in that exercise of articulation, affirming each other and kind of finding commonality and diversity among our experiences. It does that role quite well. I think a lot of us, as I mentioned me, we took 12 units in philosophy, so a lot of us really took to the philosophical texts quite readily because of that background. But I think we also have a lot of artists and writers, and they have their own, they have their own theories that they bring into feminist analyses. They have their own practices, of course, artistic practices, that we can use in advocacy, as well. And we have used as well. So I think feminist philosophy helps in the articulation. And the clarification of what we mean when we say there's an enabling culture, what we mean when we say there's misogyny, in this particular space.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 19:29
So it helps define concepts. And when you read feminist philosophy, and then you have these events on the ground with your community at Ateneo and in Manila, do you ever encounter frictions of the people's like "feminism is this" or "feminist philosophy is this" that doesn't resonate with your actual experience? Because, let's be real, a lot of philosophy that is heralded and taught is a lot of Western philosophy. And that's true in the feminist discourse writ large. There's a lot of like, "this is what women want" and "this is what feminism is" that doesn't necessarily reflect communities that aren't White.
Danna Aduna 20:15
Certainly we've heard, not me, but with a friend always talks about how she was thought of feminism as its either feminism or patriarchy, maybe it's, "I think feminism is a Western construct". And, of course, patriarchy and misogyny as well. And we definitely get that kind of opposition, or dismissal, I guess, that, you know, you're just talking about Western feminism. I actually use... well, I just remembered that I think I have like a very specific experience of that.
So after the protests the semester after the protest, I overhauled my syllabus, my introduction to philosophy syllabus to include all women philosophers, so I teach the phenomenological track of our Introduction to Philosophy course in the department. So as I said, you know, I can't teach men's texts anymore, or at least not for the time being. So I thought all women philosophers for a few semesters for a couple of semesters, but then because of the pandemic, we had to do this collaborative efforts of friends lating, our on site courses to our online courses and, and so I kind of had to go through the I kind of needed approval of the more senior faculty for my syllabus, whereas I didn't need it before. And it kind of got very bad for being too progressive and through feminists, it was not a great experience and I did actually had to change I did have to change my course syllabus because of that. Yeah, and nevermind that I had I of course, I teach Beauvoir and some white feminists because you know, you kind of have to ground the phenomenology course, within that traditions. Yeah. So, of course, I included Beauvoir, but I also had Sara Ahmed and I had bell hooks, never mind that I had them. But I was still accused of being like a White feminist having a White feminist philosophy course. And I think it was really, you know, it was really like, a moment where I was being put in my place for being a feminist and being an activist within our community. So that was kind of like a terrible experience. And I had to Yeah, I had, I had to comply and teach what everyone else was teaching. So So yeah, we do get that's kind of strange. You know, you kind of think that, you know, when you're doing activism, your battle is in the institution, on that level, engaging the administrators, but then you realise that you also have these other battles to fight also, within your immediate community.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 23:12
So that's a really interesting point that you got flack on both sides: you got the people saying you can't teach all women, ("how preposterous!"), and then you got people like "you included one white woman, so therefore, this is, like bad." And I think that's a really important discussion to have, because I think you made a really strong statement or saying, I will have my entire syllabus be women, obviously, some people will be like, well don't include Beauvoir. And I've had to reflect on this as well in my syllabi, and things like that. And ultimately, I did include her. Because as it is, she is an important part of it, the canon of how what it is, and I'm a firm believer in encouraging people to read the original as much as possible before they read a bunch of interpretations of the ideas of this person when you have when you have access to the original, but it's this idea where can we view it as a resource? Can we kind of get away from these polarising ideas of it's either all terrible or it's all good and say, having Beauvoir side by side with people like bell hooks, who are not on traditional philosophy syllabi, but you know, is a philosopher, I think that in and of itself is an act of resistance and is an act of decolonial scholarship because you're saying, hey, everyone is like, Oh, yes, the second sex is so important. And you're like, sure, but so is bell hooks writing. So you're saying these authors belong on the same page. So I'm sorry you had that that's experience. But I think it's it's important to talk about that, as you say, it's not only institutional resistance, but there are lots of conversations that need to happen within activist spaces about what is the point of having access to different knowledge resources.
Danna Aduna 25:16
Yeah. And it goes, at some point, you need to teach the students how to critique texts and philosophers for their whiteness, or for all their blind spots, not like was the early white philosopher that they'll ever encounter. So it to me it was interesting that the, the one feminists, so the West has to, you know, pass the lens of, does this beach canon does this count as canon, but you also get flack for teaching canon, kind of, you kind of have to fight all these fronts, and it makes you think, it's probably not about, you know, the whiteness of the sex, but just because it's a feminist course. And then then it receives all kinds of, of criticisms that, you know, tend to contradict each other even.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 26:11
So if you had carte blanche to construct a course from the ground up from from zero, what is your ideal course right now that you would love to teach?
Danna Aduna 26:22
Oh, my gosh, it's so hard to answer it as a junior faculty member. And the courses that she teaches...
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 26:30
Let's, let's say there is no hierarchy, you are the queen of the world, and you get to teach whatever class you want.
Danna Aduna 26:36
I've been thinking about having like a book club, kind, of course, where, so I teach Introduction to Philosophy, as I said, and it's phenomenological. So it's very experience base, it's very much tied to their personal experience, personal reflections. So I would want to teach other women and queer philosophers, I would also want to leave space for the students who do study one book, maybe will study one book together, that's not really considered philosophy. But But we could argue or we could argue among ourselves about whether it is philosophy or not. So I want the facts or the me at this point secondary because, you know, I'm so used to you being I'd also subjects in teaching official syllabi, I mean, like, my first layer of resistance is really making my classes as they are logical and open and intuitive and connected and relevant as I can. So I also practice community of inquiry, approach the community of inquiry approach in my courses.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 27:54
And what is that?
Danna Aduna 27:56
So it is a Philosophy for Children method for facilitating philosophical discussions in class. So the steps are you present the prompt, so it could be a movie clip, or a comic strip or something, something interesting like that. And then you ask all the students, do you suggest questions that they think would be interesting for discussion? And then they vote on one question, ideally? And then they just discuss that one question. And then and then we resynthesize. Right. So so that's basically the community of inquiry approach. And I do that in all my classes in the online setup, whenever we're on Zoom are doing just community of inquiry. And, to me, it's a great way to kind of circumvent all the restrictions that you have that you have to teach these sets, I think it's really opened up a space for discussions of things that are, you know, that are more relevant to students than what this I didn't know 19th or 20th century philosopher said at this time. So it really kind of bridges the gap from between the text and where they are.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 29:12
I love that. So it's not only about changing the content, but you're really playing with the format. Yeah, yeah. That that's great, because I remember, like, I went to a tiny University, and we did a lot of directed readings. So if you were, you had a subject you wanted to look, you could approach the professor you wanted to work with, and maybe with like one or two other students say, hey, we want to dig into this deeper, and I remember doing hermeneutics to class because I really enjoyed my hermeneutics class. And so I wanted to like go deeper, and with my friend Dan, we did that. And yeah, on the syllabus, we read like Henry James, and we read literature and things like that. And it was just, you know, how do you apply this methodology of hermeneutics on books that aren't quote unquote, philosophy. So yeah, I think that's, that's a wonderful idea because I got so much out of that class, I can only imagine how your students react to being able to apply philosophical inquiry to things that are not canon or not even categorise this philosophy in the bookstore. And so you've mentioned you were looking into doing your PhD. So what are the areas of inquiry you're looking into?
Danna Aduna 30:25
I have developed two different PhD proposals so far, but they're both on epistemic injustice against survivors. So the first one is about epistemic and effective injustice against survivors of sexual slavery in World War Two. And then the more more reason, one is epistemic injustice against survivors and academic institutions, which, of course, it's pretty obvious where that's coming from. So I'm looking into particularly so my, my texts that have been important in my proposal, as it as it is now, one is a discussion of epistemic injustice against survivors of the Magdalen laundries in Ireland. So their point basically, is that even transitional justice processes which profess to centre survivors and seek reparations and amends for survivors, then to be conducted in such a way that prioritises the sovereignty of the state. And so even though you have a state, maybe that performs shame, it's not true shame, unless there is a collapse of that sovereign self, and they draw from other than on this point. And because states want to preserve their sovereignty, then often, the conditions for transitional pursuing concessional injustice often enact epistemic injustice against survivors. So I would like to extend their analysis and say that in academic institutions, they want to protect their legitimacy. And so the institutional processes for dealing with sexual violence can also tend to enact not just epistemic injustice against survivors, but also affective injustice. Because when we talk about our in survivor testimony, of course, that involves trauma being anger, and all these things. So when the conditions are not just forgiving a survivor testimony, then it does harm on to the survivors on both epistemic and affective levels.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 32:53
That sounds wonderful. I definitely want to read your research now. That is my jam: the kind of like state sovereignty slash feminism. Yeah, um, that's great. So I always ask my guests, what are you reading right now that is giving you life, whether in philosophy or not?
Unknown Speaker 33:16
Oh, my gosh, amI'm doing read for leisure nowadays?
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 33:25
Or it could be a movie or a TV show.
Danna Aduna 33:33
I'm still in my caveman phase, I think... So you were there in our, in the event where we assisted in the panel called Resentment, Guilt and Shame Under Patriarchy. And there were all these great feminist philosophers: Kate Manne, Tracy Llanera, Louise Richardson-Self, Filipa Melo Lopes, Paul Podosky, Leslie De la Cruz. I think, unfortunately, the pandemic has really carved my or limited my attention span, I'm really not able to read much and focus much on under the index recently. So I, I rely a lot on audiobooks and on discussions, because I think that's more.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 34:22
I mean, that's completely fair. Also, I believe, audio books is reading in my mind, but so do you have a audio book you would like to recommend?
Danna Aduna 34:33
Well, I'm read well, it's not... Yeah, well, you said "giving life", so it doesn't necessarily have to be fun or light, right? I am listening to Sara Ahmed's "Living a Feminist Life" and it's giving me life because, you know, everything she says, just really, really resonates. And I love how she describes, you know, working for diversity and institutions as kind of coming up against a brick wall. I it's not really the most uplifting metaphor for the work that we do.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 35:07
Oh, it doesn't... giving life doesn't have to be uplifting. Yeah. If it just like, "Yes! You speak the truth!" that can be a very life giving moment for sure.
Danna Aduna 35:18
Yeah, I guess it's kind of when you're like, down and really tired from from the work that it's nice to have like a metaphor that yeah, I'm coming up against a brick wall again, how do I get the rounded? How do I undermine the foundations of that wall? So it's nice to have images, I think and metaphors that really help you kind of think about things on a different level or from a different lens. So, so yeah, I'm trying to, you know, those books where you know, you want to read them and finish them because they resonate so much, but the other resonates so much. So it's hard to read them or listen to them in one setting. So I've been kind of working through through hurts Absolutely.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 36:00
Yeah, you kind of have to give yourself some breaks. But I'll definitely check that out. Because I love listening to nonfiction audiobooks. And I mean, you shouldn't feel bad. I think a lot of people during the pandemic have not been able to read, you're definitely not alone, in that, whatever gives you life is good. So how can people find you on the internet, you also run or are part of the women and philosophy group?
Danna Aduna 36:27
Correct. So you can find my two organisations on the internet. One is Times Up Ateneo. We have a website timesupateneo.org. We are also on Twitter and Facebook, so you can search for @timesupateneo there. And then I'm also part of Women Doing Philosophy. It's a group of Filipino Filipino philosophers who identify, were raised, or are treated as women. We were also formed during the pandemic, I think, May or June 2020. So we are also on Facebook and Twitter, social search for Women Doing Philosophy on Facebook and, on Twitter, we are @womendoingphilo
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 37:11
Well thank you so much for talking with me and have a great day. Bye.
Thank you very much, Danna for coming. I wish you all the best of your job at UP Baguio and I hope that we will continue to see one another in the space of Women Doing Philosophy, which I found was a wonderful, wonderful community. And I highly encourage you to check up Danna's work on Times Up Ateneo; I will link everything in the show notes. I will also link the books that Danna has mentioned in the show notes if you want to check those out. Whenever possible, I put bookshop.org affiliate links so if you click on that link and shop on bookshop.org UK, that helps support the podcast I get a few pence for every purchase.
But as always, the best way to support the podcast is to rate and review it please give me five stars in whatever pod catcher that allows you to rate and share the podcast widely with your friends, your colleagues, your students. I always love reaching further ends of the earth. You can follow the podcast @philoCCpod on Twitter and Instagram. And I've been posting some reels on Tik Tok as well. You can follow me personally @ElainaGMamaril on Twitter. And you can email the podcast at philosophycasting callpod@gmail.com If you have any questionsand if as you want, if you want to propose some guests. Otherwise, you can check out my other podcast Bookshelf Remix for some book reviews of underrepresented authors and keep your eyes peeled for Women of Questionable Morals, my Gilmore Girls review podcast. Until then, bye!
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